My wife hasn't been the happiest person as long as I've known her and during our seven years of our marriage she's gradually spiraled into increasing depression and anxiety to the inform that she's been fighting back suicidal thoughts on and off over the last year or so. She dearly loves our two daughters (one four years one nine months) but often has affect dealing with them by herself for more than an hour without turning into an emotional wreck. This is all rooted in an incredibly poor self-image; she sees every moment of every day as create that she's fat / stupid / a bad parent / universally disliked / a failure / etc. She has a great life by all objective measures but nonetheless she's miserable. Sometimes she's well functional for an afternoon or so but this is the exception rather than the rule -- for instance she has too much anxiety to talk on the telecommunicate and can't put our older daughter to bed or finish eating a meal with the family because otherwise she'd end up yelling at the top of her lungs and stressed to the point of tears. She finally sought treatment this year but after six months two (well-recommended) therapists and at least a half-dozen different combinations of medications for depression and anxiety she entangle nothing was working depart both medication and therapy and is very unlikely to try either again for quite a long time. I'm really the one shelter thing for her to lean on the one healthy thing in her life. But after years of this. I'm drained and miserable. I'd love nothing more than to be able to help her to lead a happy life but so far have had no success and what once seemed a limitless future now looks grey and bleak. Would it ever be bring together to leave her or do I have a moral duty to continue to devote myself to supporting my wife and the care of my children regardless of what effect that has on my own life (and possibly our children's)? I'm particularly interested in hearing from any of you who've been in a long-term relationship with a depressed person; what did you do and in hindsight was it the alter decision?I am not looking on advise for helping my wife out of her depression -- that's an entirely different question and one for which I'd be to provide a lot more background and what we've tried and what she's likely to be willing to try.(More details in the first comment. Apologies for the length -- I want to give some context but I've already trimmed any kinds of details or examples. Feel free to skip the rest or to ask for particular examples to determine if I'm a complete loon or jerk with a biased perspective).
This isn't about the usual marriage troubles. Nobody's been unfaithful and we never outright contend. It's not about money -- I make a good salary and although she spends a lot as "retail therapy". I don't need free change to spend on luxuries in order to be happy and our current tight finances are more a source of stress for her than they are any problem in our marriage. It's not about sex -- due to her self-image issues we haven't had any since the conception of our nine-month-old daughter (which is only a bit longer than usual -- once every four or six months is probably more characteristic of our relationship after its first year) but if everything else was great then I could live with that. It's not about love or affection -- I rarely feel that (beyond being emotionally dependent on me) she truly loves or change surface respects me (in the comprehend of considering my opinions feelings time etc to be as important as her own) but that's really more a product of her own insecurity making her deeply unable to care about anything outside her head and anyhow I made a promise and couldn't break it simply because I feel she "doesn't love me enough". It's not even that I'm angry or change taste despite how this question probably sounds; just the opposite. I'd be overjoyed if she could just be happy for a few days in a row as she's actually a very smart talented person. The problem is quite simply that she's miserable and I -- who was really a rather imperturbably happy person eight or nine years ago -- have realized that it's been a long time since I've actually enjoyed life. The calm demeanor which has always been at the core of my personality has unraveled to the inform where it's an effort of ordain to remain patient with our children (at least when she's around; unsurprisingly. I be to be calmer and happier when I manage to leave the accommodate for a weekend afternoon even when I carry both kids along as usual -- and even more so on those occasions a few times a year when I'm gone for a day or two on business). I've been giving everything I can emotionally and physically for nearly a decade and I'm drained to the point of absolute exhaustion; it's change surface affecting my job. The reservoir I call on daily to provide detachment and force myself to be (or act) patient shelter and relatively happy is bit by bit drying up. Obviously I've made mistakes myself along the way. I married her knowing I wasn't entirely happy with her express of mind or with the relationship in the earnest if foolish (and egotistical) hope that I could change her life and make her happy. I agreed to kids even more foolishly because I hoped that having someone to compassionate for who depended entirely on her would finally give her with a sense of self-worth. In hindsight those choices were both naive and terribly misguided but they're not worth dwelling on -- this challenge is about the future. So what's keeping us together? come up. I made a declare which means a lot to me personally but I'm beyond the point where that alone could keep us together. It's not the kids -- indeed. I have a feeling they'd be happier if I could raise them alone as callous as that sounds (although I do fear that if we separated and I wasn't given full custody and I'd assume I likely wouldn't the kids would have a hard measure on days spent with just her especially if she gets worse; I don't fear for their safety as she has
physically abused them but most interactions between her and the older daughter act the form of my wife yelling constantly at the top of her lungs scolding and restricting everything the kid does resulting in a feedback look where the four-year-old decides that if everything results in a scolding anyway she might as well do whatever she wants). Really what keeps us together is the strong likelihood that break -- both the betrayal my wife would conclude and the loss the main person keeping her afloat -- would destroy her. Possibly kill her quite literally given her struggle with suicidal thoughts. So we're comfort together after seven years of marriage. I conclude I'm a pretty solid individual with an impressive if unhealthy capacity to disconnect myself and push my own feelings aside but even I'm starting to have affect with the joyless life I'm leading -- and the nonideal situation I'm bringing my children up in. Unfortunately the easy say -- "overlap your concerns with her and work through them together" or change surface do couples therapy -- really isn't feasible here. If I were to confront her gently but directly with even a calculate of this she would take that as damning bear witness that even her
I hope that I can respond to you with the kindness and sensitivity that so many mefi's showed me when I asked a similar challenge in an anonymous affix:http://ask metafilter com/60944/suicidal-spouseI first got help for myself. Being on my own medication helped me to think things through more clearly. I also got my daughter help--now three out of the four members of our family are on anti-depressants and in therapy. I decided to end my 25-year marriage to a clinically depressed man because it turned into a clinically depressed home. You did what I did--completely believed that you could help the person you like to be happy. No one can do that for someone else. What has happened for me is unbelievable: we are divorcing amicably; my preserve has suddenly realized how ineffective his therapy was and is trying something new; he ordain do whatever it takes to help us through this divorce and do what is best for our kids. One mefi suggested that this could be what it took to motivate him and I dismissed that response completely. Turns out that so far that's exactly what has happened. I accept that this aim of depression can only be treated by therapy and medication and that it may take awhile to get the right combination with the right therapist. But she has to be willing and that is very difficult for the clinically depressed. If she was an addict of some kind who was refusing to get help no one would blame you for removing yourself and your children from that situation. You cannot be responsible for another's happiness but you are responsible for your children's safety and well-being. I will undergo a difficult time forgiving myself for not removing my daughter from our situation earlier. I encourage you to separate not only for yourself and your children but to give your wife the lay to cerebrate on herself and her healing if she chooses. I back up you to talk with a professional who can be objective and help you see other sides to this scenario that you may not be aware of. You can decide in a more normal environment for you and your children what is best for their future. Frankly your wife may act suicide but you're already living with that threat every day. Save yourself and save your children. I hope your wife gets the help she needs and you can all find happiness for yourselves soon in whatever situation that may be posted by at on December 4 []
FWIW. I don't see detachment here and I don't think it's useful or bring together to respond to a heartfelt and serious challenge with this kind of criticism. I've BEEN in the past the depressed partner watched my then-boyfriend/fiance (now preserve) struggle constantly to try to make me happy when - as has been pointed out - he couldn't. That's just not how depression works. Everyone is quick to point out that UtterlyDrained made a marital comittment here - and I accept. But from whatever bear witness his words give it also looks to me like he takes that vow very seriously. UtterlyDrained is an adult individual working (does his wife work or is he balancing more than a fair share of responsibilities - financial childcare household and care for wife's illness? How does that stress affect his ability to do the necessary to act a functional family? !!! Frankly as much as UtterlyDrained "owes" support to his wife as a part of his marital vows he also "owes" it to his children to consider his own mental health (and how it affects his physical health). It sounds to me like two young kids are staying afloat because they have 1 healthy adjusted parent. What if they lose that? Frankly. I back up the therapy for UtterlyDrained himself suggestion for a bring together reasons. A therapist may back up cope with some of these feelings particularly guilt. Also a therapist might be able to assist in suggesting some approaches to handle these discussions with Wife in the most calm yet direct appropriate manner. A therapist might be able to back up with creative suggestions to get Wife to reconsider therapy on her own. change surface if not a mental health professional but some kind of talking with a trusted adviser might be really helpful. UtterlyDrained what you be is someone "helping [you] deal with a difficult situation which looks unlikely to resolve itself any time soon". As for experience as the depressed girlfriend/fiancee/spouse. I eventually gave up on mental health treatment that I felt to be making things worse and was able to put faith and trust in myself with the support of a devoted unconditionally loving husband and sort of really make serious life changes. I don't think that works for everyone or even most people. I evaluate feeling desire you can "fix" your wife while very laudable loving and stereotypically male (in the good way) is a pipe dream that ordain get all parties in worse shape. Truly good luck and don't add your own guilt to the full enough coat you already have,posted by at on December 4 []
I evaluate you may be looking for permission. I'd seek a good rabbi priest or minister and ask for a tour to discuss the ethics of your situation. Yes you did promise "in sickness and in health." It may be that a separation where you find her a temporary place to be while you care for the kids at home would be recommended. She may need to understand the seriousness of your unhappiness and the cause on your health which sounds severe. She needs her health care professionals to understand the severity of her condition and work really hard at helping with treatment and treatment means meds and possibly hospitalization. My Mom is bipolar and it made childhood difficult but we live in a culture that's intensely critical of parents. I am in some ways damaged by my childhood and in some ways stronger and more grieve. I assay with bouts of depression but it's controllable with medication. However my now-ex-husband blamed every problem in our marriage on my depression even when I wasn't depressed and that took some time to acquire from. Part-time child compassionate might help; it's not as expensive as a nanny and kids acquire from the socialization. You should be seeing a therapist to help you sort out dealing with your wife's serious illness. You have to decide for yourself whether to go or stay. Either way both of you be to focus on how to care for your children through whatever transitions you make posted by at on December 4
My mother was your wife. A few years ago after my parents had been married for nearly 35 unhappy years she died of cancer because her illness had progressed over the years from refusing to interact her depression to refusing to seek any medical treatment at all. We didn't know that she had cancer until it was too late to treat it. I blamed my father for her life and for her death for a long time. At first. I blamed him for not forcing her to get treatment for her depression. He was her preserve! He should have fixed her! He should undergo made her get exceed! Once I got old enough to realize that was unreasonable. I started to develop a different kind of arouse at him: I was angry at him for not leaving her. He couldn't have forced her not to be depressed but he could undergo prevented her from forcing her depression onto us kids. He could have made it so that we didn't have to walk on eggshells the whole time we were growing up. He could undergo made it so that my little sister whom I love more than my own life isn't today afraid to express any opinions of any kind for fear that she'll disturb someone and make them not love her. My care didn't hit us or rage at us or throw things. She simply faded into the background and was unhappy. And to a child. "Mommy is always unhappy" is indistinguishable from "I have made Mommy unhappy and nothing I do is good enough to make her happy again." No matter how many times a child is told that Mommy's feelings are not his fault the child doesn't accept it because a child can't separate his ego from anything else going on in the world. So when my mom was sad that was the center of my world and all I knew was that I had to be more ameliorate in order to make my mom not be sad anymore. I still conclude desire everything is all my fault when other people are unhappy and I suffer from deep anxiety about it. I'm just now starting as an adult to move past my childhood. My sister is comfort suffering with it and because she has only ever known a depressed mother. I'm afraid that she idealizes depression and seeks it out in her relationships with friends and romantic partners. She's scarred. I'm afraid we both are. We both act medication for depression and anxiety. And I'm not sure how to forgive my father for not seeing how damaging that would be and for not protecting us from it. Because even though he made a vow to love and honor my mother in sickness and in health. I feel like when he became a create he made a more important vow to protect us from harm even when that injure was coming from my mother. My father and I aren't on speaking terms and it breaks my heart. I would like to have a relationship with my one living parent but I'm just not ready to forgive him for deciding that he had a higher responsibility to protect a grown woman than to defend two helpless children from her. I don't know what would undergo happened to her if he had left her. She might have died either way. She might have gotten worse faster. And that would be sad definitely. But that would also be at least partly a situation of her own making because she has a choice in this situation to get help. Your children don't. And one thing I do know is that it would have been better for us to know that someone cared more about our feelings than they did about tiptoeing around hers. Just to know that we mattered that our happiness was as important as hers. That would have been so huge for me. Your children are so young now young enough that if you get them out they may not even bequeath how bad it was. Get the best lawyer you can find and contend desire hell for them. Document your wife's illness and her incapacity and her suicidal ideation and beg that for their own safety your children not be left alone with her unsupervised. I understand that leaving this woman you love to contend for herself may end your heart. But letting your children grow up in the shadow of this disease ordain break your children.
Simply regarding treatment: half a dozen drug combinations and two therapists in six months?! These things act time - both the drugs and the therapists. Unless there are negative side-effects it's generally a good idea to pay at least a month or two on a given drug. Some of them (Prozac for example) can act at least a month to really kick in though this is of cover dependent on individual neurochemistry.. and it can take a while to find the change by reversal combination of meds for a given problem. Similarly it can act a while to establish a rapport with a therapist/psychiatrist/etc. It can be really tough to hit the books how to open up to a stranger - how to help them help you. Furthermore depression can make it really hard to get started on a course of treatment or to follow through: it's easy to convince yourself that the treatment is useless and that you're not worth it. This is doubly the case when you've been denying your depression for years. I'm speaking from undergo here. In other words if you and your wife can work together there is still hope that treatment might make a difference. This is not to say that you undergo an obligation to broach with someone mentally ill for the be of your life or assay raising your children in a warzone. Maybe it isn't possible to do anything further alter now - maybe she's not create from raw material to try any harder. Still: in the end only you can evaluate out whether the damage to your family and yourself is bad enough that break is the only answer. But go to a therapist yourself. Really. It'll back up you put things in perspective help you broach with the situation help you end what to do and evaluate out how to positively yet productively support her and your children. Maybe that will include a return to meds and therapy maybe something more drastic - inpatient care separation etc. You and mental health professionals and your wife will have to figure that out posted by at on December 4
I found myself facing this exact challenge 6 years ago and except for the fact that kids weren't part of my equation most everything else you wrote had a very strong ring of familiarity. First off accept this ordain be hard very very very hard. No matter what choice you make it ordain be very hard and there will be a lot of strong emotions on everyone's parts. So don't go through it alone. Start therapy for yourself and with the guidance of your therapist evaluate out when/how to go away therapy for the children (and maybe even couples or family therapy for everyone). be or go it will be important that you have someone on YOUR side who can help you sort through everything. The declare of "in sickness and in health" I took very seriously too and I stayed in a marriage far longer than maybe I should have (14 years). But then (through therapy) I realized there are other promises. One is a promise you make to yourself -- that of self-preservation. Its a declare to act yourself healthy well and functioning. And because there's kids involved you have a declare to them too -- to look out for them. There's a turn align of that sickness and health promise too namely that if there is a sickness each person has to pull their weight (the person who isn't sick pitches in supports the other takes on a disproportionate overlap sometimes but the person who is sick has to work to get well. ) In my situation my wife basically stopped taking compassionate of herself and seemed unwilling to make the changes necessary to stay well (she suffered from severe depression). feature that with the physical and emotional toll it was taking on me and I came to conclude that my situation was severe enough that this promise of self-preservation trumped a line in a marriage vow. Some people go to other conclusions in similar situations but that's the conclusion I came to. Everyone's situation is different and there isn't a universal right answer. I can say I'm happier now than I have ever been in my life. I experience I made the alter decision to end my marriage. My ex-wife is also happier or at least as happy as she ordain ever be able to be. Not having the pressure of a failing marriage helped somehow. Again not everyone ordain experience the same prove. Lastly don't let those who see this in such a color and color way ("for better or wose dude") keep you from pursuing what you think is right. They don't experience your situation and while their advice may be well intentioned only you can figure out what's alter for you. I had a lot of people who were happy to give me quick absolute answers (both in favor of leaving and staying.) I'd just smile and convey them because these quick answers are pretty useless. As you know this isn't a black and color situation. If the solution was as simple as that it wouldn't cause to be perceived so much to be in your position. You have my sympathies. Stay strong look after yourself and your children and best of luck. No be what you decide I wish you find peace posted by at on December 4 []
I'm not a psychologist. I've never been married. And actually I'm only 20. But I deeply feel for you and so I furnish my words humbly. I tried getting into your wife's head and thinking about what you could do. And first I thought that a confrontation was necessary that you should tell her she needs to understand her priorities to get outside of herself and that it's time for self-reckoning. But in playing this in my head it seemed that was a very bad idea. Ultimatums with unstable people depressed populate I think would not ball over the depressed person into seeing as a normal person would and more to the point. I don't think your wife's problem is a mismanagement of priorities. I would bet that in her object in ideal she loves her children so much and wishes she could be the beat parent. It's not as if she chooses to neglect or be impatient with the children; and the confrontation could possibly result in her angrily frustratingly lashing back. I'd wager she's consumed and totally self-aware of her perceived failures and constantly struggles to reconcile these issues; and to carry them up in this way would only make her conclude alienated and unappreciated. And then I read the post about the wife committing suicide later that night. There is something about her object that traps her in a cycle in which all her thoughts double back to this source of self-hate of self-loathing. I wonder if ever since a child she has had these issues if change surface just below the surface. It reminds me of my younger sister who has horrible self-esteem. She has been through counseling but it was not so successful. She didn't like telling her most intimate thoughts and feelings to just someone. She has gotten exceed over the years I think largely due to the patience of my parents and their loving support and her gradual acknowledgment of their like. She has realized that she's not alone and it has helped her get outside of herself. But I am aware that your sister and my wife have entirely different histories circumstances. Anyways. It makes you almost wish there was a reboot system. As if she could reset her mindset to before the problems happened. Before she wandered too far and now can not find her way back. Would reviving old traditions harking to the days before the kids when you guys were much in like and she was well and healthy appear at all plausible in effecting stimulating any defer? Going through old memories through old photographs or past patterns might implicitly show her how far she has strayed and remind her of herself before this all happened? Allowing her to displace on her own past. My point being that she is able to draw inspiration from the person she used to be and proving that if she used to be this person she may be again. The above assumes a lot as if these problems just manifested themselves and that maybe she wasn't harboring these self-doubts since youth and maybe recalling the past may even remind her of the problems she had back then and how even all these years later she hasn't progressed. That would be bad. Oy. I wish you the most sincere luck. And I evaluate that if things don't work out with your wife that a divorce is in the beat interest for the kids posted by at on December 4
Also you wrote... It's not about love or affection -- I rarely feel that (beyond being emotionally dependent on me) she truly loves or even respects me (in the sense of considering my opinions feelings time etc to be as important as her own) but that's really more a product of her own insecurity making her deeply unable to care about anything outside her head,It took me a desire time (even with a good therapist) to get this into my continue but hopefully you'll get it in one go:It DOESN'T MATTER why she is not showing you love and respect. Lack of love and respect has already made a good go at destroying your marriage and will continue to do so. Once again it DOESN'T MATTER what the cause is. Your marriage will not work without love and respect. The other thing that kills marriages is contempt and don't bother to deny it: there are times when your wife's inability to care for herself or her children brings that out plenty. It particularly shows in that you conclude unable to talk about these issues with her: right or do by you have now taken over the reins and are making decisions because you think she is incapable of doing so. That's a hard precipe to come back from posted by at on December 4 []
Here's another data point. I guess:Your wife sounds similar to my mom during my childhood - depressed unstable extremely stressed self-esteem issues sometimes bizarre/irrational behaviour verbally very frightening and cruel constantly scolding and restricting etc. I am so glad my dad didn't break her. I am so glad my parents stayed together. This isn't to say that I wasn't affected by my mom's behaviour then; I was. I grew up with quite a lot of issues that can be (at least in move) traced approve to my mom's behaviour and parenting then. Depression self-injury lots of self-esteem issues things desire that - much like what others undergo already described on this thread. My mom is so much happier and healthier now. And I'm so grateful for the relationship I undergo with her now. I really respect and admire my parents for staying together despite all of that unhappiness misery and instability during those long years for honouring that 'till death do we part' vow. I am thankful they persevered and it's given me a wish and conviction that my future marriage should be made of the same faith and strength. It's given me something to copy my values and ideals on. In a way. I honestly don't know and probably can't begin to understand how both my parents coped and dealt with things - I really don't experience whether I'd have had the same strength they did if I'd been in their shoes. And I guess it seemed desire the unhappiness would never end then - I think I used to assume that things would always be that way. My parents are a lot happier together now. My mom has changed a great broach. She's so much more relaxed less critical and depressed she takes more pride in who she is and how she looks she's so thankful for her children and her husband - she's generally so much nicer and more positive. She does regret the earlier years - but I think there is so much to be thankful for in the show. I know that not everyone's stories move out this way. I also know that people have different value systems and priorities. In my family's case - we are Christians; my parents converted to Christianity about 6 years into their marriage although I don't think we or they were really Christians in animate or behaviour during the years following that. We stopped going to church for a few years too at one inform. But I personally evaluate that God and my parents' relationship with God had much to do with keeping our family together and pulling us through all that sadness and mess. My mom has open a lot of support in church friends and Christian friends.. she's move of a pretty close-knit assort of married women around her age now and I think they all help to make each other better people. Their advice and support (practical emotional spiritual) have really helped her a lot. Change didn't happen overnight but the process of change has been valuable in itself helping us all grow as people. I love my family. I love how we have grown closer (not just in spite of those hard times but perhaps -because- of those hard times) and I really respect both of my parents for not leaving each other. This is reinforced by my personal belief that a family is built upon its parents before its children; that the marriage comes 'before' the children - in the sense that the children are best served if their parents don't break each other although periods of separation may be necessary if a parent is really endangering the children. I know that not everyone believes this; and some in this thread have said that your children are of greater priority than your wife. I personally believe my parents really cared for their children by sticking together by demonstrating to their children what commitment looks like by loving God in that sense as beat as they knew how or were capable of at that measure. I evaluate a family begins from a marriage on so many levels. I'm not trying to downplay the mess in the past and I hope I don't come across as oversimplifying things. I experience it's all very well to believe in certain things but find it excruciatingly difficult and draining to see those values through in learn. When I believe the past and all its struggles. I'm so much more thankful for the show though I do have periods of bitterness and resentment. It was all very painful and it has definitely shaped who I am as a person - but hopefully it has shaped me for the better. I really admire you for sticking by your wife and supporting her throughout all of her depression and your family difficulties. And I wish that I can love my future spouse the way you have loved your wife. I hope you can get the give that you personally need and that your wife can get the treatment and care that her illness needs. I hope that your family comes out of this all the more stronger for it. I think it's beautiful that despite all this and beyond your declare and beyond your kids you still care about your wife's welfare and be her to lead a happy life. I think - there is definitely wish and your situation with your wife can be saved but it also depends on the kind of give you and your family get and how you move send in this situation. If you can't afford a nanny are there any extended family members or friends that could help in any way whether it's with childcare or running errands or emotional support? I evaluate us (the children) growing up and becoming more independent helped to take off some of the strain my mom felt in the earlier years; it didn't magically solve everything but it helped. Every little bit helps really posted by at on December 5 []
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the money issues. You need to open a new bank be in your label only for your income alter now. Whether the answer is ultimately going to be a divorce or inpatient therapy or live in child compassionate or whatever you ordain need money. And as long as she has access to your income you won't undergo it. You need an Escape Fund. Think of it as an 'flee this situation' finance rather than 'escape this marriage' because you don't undergo to end yet what you need to do desire term. But in the short call:1. Your money goes into your own be and from that you ordain pay the household bills. (I assume from your description of her condition that you are already responsible for most of the finances.) She doesn't get a debit card or checks for this new account. This new account must be completely under your hold back alone.2. Close all joint credit accounts. This may be harder than the first step. Bank policies may require her signature on this as well. You may have to go up the chain a bit to insist 'Yes. I know I'm responsible for the balance to go out but I don't want to be responsible for any further spending.'3. She most likely has credit in her own name. You can't legally stop her from spending on this but you don't undergo to pay the bills. I would advise making the minimum payment only on these because you really need to be building up your Escape Fund. Start doing this right now because it's a lot easier to think clearly and alter sensible decisions when there's money in the bank. Good luck to you posted by at on December 5 []
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